Curse

Cymmina · Jul 10, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Damage is just too high in GW, requiring healing to be really effective to offset it. Damage needs to be the way it is because mob hp is too high to offset their crappy AI.

It doesn't help that most professions other than monk have a crappy self heal. Warrior and ranger self heals aren't too bad, but elementalist (aura of restoration) is particularly bad and mesmer (ether feast) has a really high recharge and requires energy to work (kinda sucky if you are an energy denial build). Even if self heals were given a bit of a boost, there's people out there that firmly believe that only the dedicated healer should be carrying healing (or defensive) skills. That's why you see so many people thinking you need 3 monks.

arnansnow · Jul 10, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

I would think monks would be destroyed by a good mesmer with interrupts and backfire.

CaptainGuru · Jul 10, 2005, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

close... let me give a try here also.

ranger > elementalist (the long casting time and bowtime interriupts match better, armor vs elem for ranger)
elementalist > mesmer (energy drain effective short term?)
mesmer > monk
monk > necro (life vs death?)
necro > warrior
warrior > ranger (keeps ranger busy on longer term)

offcourse, this is quite shallow. but just wanted to make a fun cycle.

WTF?

Mesmer > Monk > Elementalist > Necromancer > Ranger > Warrior

GranDeWun · Jul 10, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Actually, (speaking of PvE), the fixation of teams on having two monks is ridiculous. I've gone thru plenty of missions across 4 characters with no monks...the real problem is too many people who take NO defenses and thus die unless they have their own personlal monk. Sad, really.

rotor · Jul 10, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

WTF?

Mesmer > Monk > Elementalist > Necromancer > Ranger > Warrior

Actually it looks more like this ...

ranger > elementalist > mesmer > monk > necro > warrior

arnansnow · Jul 10, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

I consider:

Mesmer>Monk
Ranger>Elementalist
Necro>Warrior

CaptainGuru · Jul 10, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotor

Actually it looks more like this ...

Uh...

Mesmer can easily down a elementalist with backfire, DoTs, diversion and interruption spells. And they can heal themselves. They have stances to counter damage from certain elementals.

Rangers are better than a warrior in usefulness, but a good necromancer will throw every condition back on him. He can also slowdown his attack rate and DoT him.

Monk can heal through spike damage of an elementalist's spell and the spike damage of a backfire from a mesmer.

Lastly, the Ranger will be too busy with the Monk to do anything against the Mesmer. The Mesmer will use diversion on the ranger and he'll lose all of his abilities within seconds. Now one on one, Cry of Frustration if the Ranger attempts to use Choking gas then Ineptitude, Energy Drain, Spirit Shackles, Etheral Burden, Illusionary weapon.

So as I said Mesmer > Monk > Elementalist > Necromancer > Ranger > Warrior

rotor · Jul 10, 2005, 02:21 PM // 14:21

I agree with the order. Maybe for me change elementalist and necro.

I Thought you had placed the previous posters classes in order

King of Fools · Jul 10, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

whatever. i think people are too used to the traditional roles, healer, caster, tank. all of the professions can bring heals and self heals. monk primary is not needed if you have a group that actually takes 5min to discuss what skills to bring.

none · Jul 10, 2005, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by King of Fools

whatever. i think people are too used to the traditional roles, healer, caster, tank. all of the professions can bring heals and self heals. monk primary is not needed if you have a group that actually takes 5min to discuss what skills to bring.

Partly /agree. I think it needs more than 5 minutes to discuss this, because people will soon realise, that they are far more used to Monks than they might think.

btw, the opposition of classes ingame is different:

Ranger <=> Mesmer
Warrior <=> Elementalist
Necro <=> Monk

Thomasuwoo · Jul 10, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Don't like monks eh? Bring quickening zepher, pred season and deabilitaing shot.
Oh but now the monks on YOUR team can't do anything? You just said they are too powerful....

Here's proof that you should change the topic to ban all ranger teams. Any all monk teams we fought were crushed in under 2 mintues.

Pic here

The skill and effects bar is blanked out as we plan to take a more powerful version of this team to the hall

CaptainGuru · Jul 10, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Here's proof that you should change the topic to ban all ranger teams. Any all monk teams we fought were crushed in under 2 mintues.

Pic here

The skill and effects bar is blanked out as we plan to take a more powerful version of this team to the hall

I've gotten that score with less Ranger dominated team. An all Ranger team can beaten if have W/Me leeching energy/spirit Shackle and a monk using draw all conditions and restore conditions.

I came up with a build not long ago.

4 x W/Me (Anti-caster)
Axe Mastery Rank: 11 Points: 16
Dismember
Axe Twist
Axe Rake
Disrupting Chop
Executioner's Strike

Inspiration Rank: 10 Points: 12
Energy Drain
Leech Signet
Energy Tap or Power Drain

Strength Rank: 10 Points: 12
*None

2x R/Mo (Healer)

Beast Mastery Rank: 10 Points: 12
Energizing Wind

Wilderness Survival Rank: 10 Points: 12
Greater Conflagration
Choking Gas

Healing Prayers Rank: 11 Points: 17
Dwayna of Kiss
Heal Party
Healing Speed
Word of Healing

Non-Linked Skill Attribute
Light of Dwayna

2x Me/Mo (Fake healer)

Fast Casting Rank: 11 Points: 16
None
*Invest in runes

Divine Favor Rank: -- Points: --

*Can’t contribute points to it.

Divine Boon – 25 health per spell cast.

Smiting Rank: 10 Points: 12
Zealot Fire- Every time, you force to remove a hex and a condition with a spell or signet, you deal 27-something damage to all enemies surrounding you.

Smite Hex – 40-something damage to near by foes whenever you remove a hex.

Protection Rank: 10 Points: 12
Mark of Protection – Gain 40 health per hit for 10 seconds + 25 from Divine Boon.

Mend Alignment – 40 + 25 Divine Boon (65)

Healing Rank: 0 Points: 0
Restore Life

Non-Linked Skill Attribute
Remove Hex.

Inspiration Magic Rank: 0 Points: 0
Mantra of flame – All damage is convert to fire damage within Conflagration and you reduce the damage done to you while gaining energy.

The Warriors of this team specialize in taking out any characters that use energy. (Rangers and spellcasters alike) The mesmers monks are fake healers and most team go after the spellcaster anyway. If any hex or condition is inflicted with Zealot fire on them, the surrounding opponents do damage. It's Kamikaze without the suicide. Lastly, the rangers will be healing and providing protection for the monks through GC.

If this went against your ranger team, they would get destroyed.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 10, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Nice build. But I do belive our selection of skills would have been able to overcome it. Damn fine build though. Would be fun to pit it against ours and see what would happen.

Antonio Cappello · Jul 11, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotor

Actually it looks more like this ...

ranger > elementalist > mesmer > monk > necro > warrior

A five air elementalist spike team with three monks > any unsuspecting target

Heheh I love spike teams.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 11, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50

I love them too. I love them because I know we are going to fight them every time we run the tombs. All it wakes is a Elementalist warder, A Ranger with natuers renewal and a few res sigs. My teams often get ganked by two air ele teams that realise they haven't got a chance against us and still win.

Dahl · Jul 11, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Do not be stereotypical... Want to know why people think they can predict weaknesses and strengths in combat? Because insecure people follow other's builds. The monk allllllways fears getting ganged up on by the enemies because they take the most damage and deal the least back?.. Try me. As soon as a battle started 3 warriors rushed me, and began using their attacks on me (one was hammer, the other 2 were sword). Guess what? My health never dropped below 50% and while they were attacking me, the rest of my party went and destroyed the other casters and monks, and then came to finish off the warriors one-by-one that were so foolishly attacking me. Once in a blue moon a Warrior will wake up and realise "WOW, I'M NOT DOING ANY DAMAGE, LET'S CHANGE TARGETS!"

Moral of this story... CREATE YOUR OWN BUILDS!!! Every build has weaknesses and strengths, and though since some builds seem like they have the least weaknesses, you still need to use builds that have more. Being different is the key to victory. I don't remember how many times my seemingly strange party and strange use of skills for me laughed at... Until I stood on their broken skulls.

Experiment, experiment, experiment...

(ps. this was directed to arnansnow for his little... "class rock-paper-scissors chart"... good luck in PvP... The REAL PvP...)

Thomasuwoo · Jul 11, 2005, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Thank you Dahl. Hit the hammer right in the head there. Experimentation is the key. Work out with your team what you're likley to come up against in the upcoming battles and prepare. There are plenty of tactics and skiulls often overlooked becuase their uses aren't applicable in all situations. All dahl would have had to bring to save himself from the enemy wars would be heal area and maybe a few defesive skills suck as gladiators defese, shields stance or protections such as sheild of regeneration protective spirt or reversal of fortune.
But heal area heals the wars too! you shout? If the wars aren't being attacked who cares?
Think outside of the box people. Experament and discover combinations that not only benift you but the rest of the team as well.

Sholtar · Jul 12, 2005, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

Who wants to start a petition to remove all the overpowered classes from Guild Wars? It's about time we all master the arts of the Gwen-class (happy dancing, never being attacked, and areaheal everyon now and then)

Uh.... you weren't a beta tester, were you? Let's just say... I really wouldn't mind being Gwen.

Wish Swiftdeath · Oct 09, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

title is win

EPO Bot · Oct 09, 2007, 11:21 AM // 11:21

I wouldn't say monks are too strong. I say people that suck at the game need em too much.